DIY Thesis Theme vs. Genesis vs. Solostream Review

Valid points you are sharing here. A blog is a very powerful platform you can use to build long-lasting relationships with your readers and keep them coming back for more. Thanks for sharing your insights.

Hey, everyone.

I use Thesis and I will most likely continue to do so. For me, it's simple.

1. To each his own - I like Thesis more than any other themes I have used. I have not used an incredible amount of themes but why should I? I'm not going to spend my "cyber life" searching for themes. It's an area to evaluate periodically... not continuously.

2. Though I love blogging and playing around online, I do consider myself an internet marketer. Therefore, no matter what products I use, I will promote them because I stand behind them. Just because you don't believe the Thesis hype doesn't mean I am doing something wrong by promoting it. That's like saying that Tide is doing something wrong by making various claims about its laundry detergent. It's business... that's how it works.

3. Thesis doesn't come out of the box ready to please site visitors. Damn... it's pretty ugly and boring. THAT was a personal challenge to me and it caused me to learn a LOT more about web development. I appreciate Thesis for that and I would appreciate any theme that did that for me.

Really, this is all just a matter of perspective. No one is doing anything wrong by promoting Thesis.

I do, however, appreciate this article. It's genius. I would assume it's one of your most popular articles? I wish I had the balls to go "against the blogosphere grain" like this. Smart blogger here.

Hi,

I am a Thesis user... hehe - it's like the opening to a 12 steps program - but that's the truth and I've also tried numerous other GPL (Once you have parted with cash) themes and like Wendy, I am sick and tired of being burned by so-called 'professional themes that comply with the Wordpress standards'. Please excuse me for a moment while I curse the **** **** b*stards - honestly - they are mainly made of 100% sh*t! A total waste of time and money! I have not tried theme Hybrid although I do use Justin's Members plugin and like it a lot - maybe I will give it a whirl one day but I've been burned that many times I am very reluctant to part with any cash to any theme designer ever again! Note: the _only_ theme I do not feel short-changed by is Thesis - worth every penny 100 times over.

Why do I like Thesis?

If I have a design, I can make it rock in Thesis in a few hours. I've completely rebuilt sites in an afternoon with Thesis. Yes the learning curve is slightly inclined, but the rewards come in waves. Thesis is powerful! It regularly saves me HOURS of time. Over and over again! My clients love me for it because their bills are less and their sites look and function as they should.

I can open the content editing interface to my clients, close off the bits they don't need to see and have them editing content/metadata to their hearts content in a couple of hours. Nothing much more than it would take them to learn how to use Wordpress itself, Thesis integration is seamless.

I know a Thesis site will work in every modern browser including mobile devices without a big todo - unless I step out of the ring - granted it takes a bit to know where that line is. But again, hours saved testing, I know I don't need to because I've started on the right foot and every single element is already tested and safe. I _know_ it will be right, and every time I do check, it is _always_ spot on!

SEO can be done with other plugins yes, that's absolutely fine, take your pick, either way, the Thesis SEO works and is easy to use. A little bonus - but certainly not what I paid for.

Most of all, I paid for the Typography. When was the last time anyone came to you and said wow - your website's typography is beautiful? I get that every time I launch a site because Thesis does make beautiful typography easy. The content is easy to read and it looks amazing! I guess this will be completely lost on a lot of folks, but such is life. I don't doubt that subconsciously they will enjoy reading well laid out typography more, even if they never acknowledge that ;-)

As for the affiliate marketing, hmmm, I don't like it either, but DIYThemes are hardly alone here. There's more of it? There's lots more sites powered by it? Erm, maybe it does actually work and it's not all hype then hey!?

I don't often make comments on blog posts, but I found the notion that someone would make a challenging post, with a high probability of a negative reaction about something they clearly know nothing about, a little too much to bear in silence. For what t's worth, I think you are dead wrong and Thesis is not the Emporers new clothes (Perhaps a highly functional, flexible utility suit in beige but all to willing to adorn itself in whatever style you see fit? hmm perhaps that's a bit Howard Moon!)

Obviously you, and everyone else here, are entitled to your opinions, but honestly, the childish lashings out at affiliate marketers hyperboles one tiny aspect of the culture behind this amazing theme. Yes they are idiots, but there are idiots everywhere you look! Ignore them like we all ignore any and all advertising - to do anything else just encourages them (Damn, why am I writing this post?)

I could go on, but I've probably said enough and despite appearances I'm not looking for a fight... here's one last suggestion; buy Thesis, give yourself the 30 days within which you can have a no-quibble refund and rebuild one of your sites in it. When I think of using another theme, my heart sinks, and I wouldn't mind betting you end up feeling the same ;-)

By the way, I'm not upset, just feeling rather sorry for you in that you're missing out.

I *heart* Thesis :)

I am in the process of redoing my site. I have used Thesis in the past and like some who have commented here, feel that there are so many more themes these days that look great and have lots of nice options built in. But alas, those that I have tried always had some unwelcome surprise. And sometimes you do not realize what that will be until you have fully loaded it with content or enough posts or performed searches after it goes live. For example, I have a recently used the Dandelion theme and noticed that blog posts when viewed on subsequent pages (page 2, page 3) will show up on Google SERPs as blog/page-2 or blog/page-3-YUK! I probably don't have the best process and am not a php guru, so I don't know how to fix this. I simply accept that it is part of the theme. I would like to try a different theme for my new site but in the end, I think I will be using Thesis once again. For me it is a matter of trust. When I validate my code and find errors or perform a search and get weird results, I KNOW that it is either something I did or a plugin that I added. I like clean code. It's just the way I roll and I trust that Thesis is clean and semantically sound and produces good SEO results if properly utilized. Are there other themes out there that would compare? Probably, but I have yet to find it. Tired of getting burned.

@Armen - I had similar issues with regard to post thumbs and at least on one site, I accidentally got it working the way intended (michaelfields.org). Tiny thumbs are automatically generated for the teasers on the home page. I'm not sure why it works. I use the Thesis Post Image field but leave the Thumbnail Image field blank. I think thumbs are one of the most confusing of all things in WP (and Thesis). WP has a specific set of instructions for thumbs too. I think you need to add a function to make them work. Just Google it.

I'm no savvy developer, but I've been using Thesis for my wife's site (see link above) for two and a half years now.

There's much I like about it. But, there are also things I hate about it, like how you can't get plugins with thumbnails to work because Thesis handles thumbnails differently to WordPress.

Some other things are inherently confusing because the approach is so different to the norm (like creating templates).

At the start I was deeply frustrated by the whole experience. Once I got it working and didn't have to touch it, I relaxed. But, every so often I have to do something and Thesis just makes it harder for me to achieve, when it should be making things simpler.

@Greg,

"you need a “framework” to change the width of a container? Really?"

I agree that this shouldn't be a problem.

@Gee, I myself have never used the Headway theme, so I can't really comment as to why it might be inefficient. Some people have argued that any theme that runs on a theme framework is less efficient than individual themes since it adds complexity and coding bulk.

Also, themes that have extensive option panels can be less efficient which may slow down their page load times somewhat. It's the price you pay for ease of use and convenience.

From Dave:

"1. Thesis is a framework – this means it can be used to develop ‘child themes’ without hacking the core (like you would have to do with Kubrick or 2010)."

What's a child theme? Just kidding... Yes, I am well-aware of WordPress theme frameworks and child themes.

"2. Thesis is wildly customizable if you know what you’re doing, and simple enough to make a good looking site with even if you don’t."

That Thesis is customizable is a valid point though I'm not sure I am convinced of the latter point.

"3. Thesis eliminates the need for quite a few plugins. Plugins slow websites down, add a bunch of clutter and need to be updated regularly."

That's true to an extent, though some would argue that Thesis does't play very well with WordPress including Chris Pearson's former partner, Brian Clarke.

"Thesis has had a lot of bad press lately, partly due to Chris Pearson opening his mouth before thinking, but mostly because Matt Mullenweg seems to have a personal vendetta against him. Most likely this is because Chris has made more money from Thesis than Matt has from WordPress, and he doesn’t like to play by the ‘rules’."

This is probably the one point that I would disagree with you on quite vehemently about. I'm not sure who's made more money, but you do presume that's Matt's motivation.

I don't know the specifics of Matt's ownership of WordPress.com or Automatic, but I don't think Chris can sell enough Thesis themes in his life to come close to some of the recent offers for either.

"Perhaps a bit more research before you post in future?"

This post was intended to stimulate discussion and debate and it did just that. Aside from that, it was to raise the issue of 'unbiased' Thesis theme reviews by Thesis affiliates and hidden affiliate links.

If this post pretended to be a thesis theme review itself, then you might have a point.

Here are a few truths about Thesis you wouldn't have a clue about having never used it:

1. Thesis is a framework - this means it can be used to develop 'child themes' without hacking the core (like you would have to do with Kubrick or 2010).

2. Thesis is wildly customizable if you know what you're doing, and simple enough to make a good looking site with even if you don't.

3. Thesis eliminates the need for quite a few plugins. Plugins slow websites down, add a bunch of clutter and need to be updated regularly.

4. Thesis has an amazing support community. When I started working with it I knew nothing. In a little over a year I've learned, with the help of the Thesis forums, to earn a living coding custom Thesis themes. In contrast, leave a newbie question on the WordPress forums and you'll be shot down in flames.

Thesis has had a lot of bad press lately, partly due to Chris Pearson opening his mouth before thinking, but mostly because Matt Mullenweg seems to have a personal vendetta against him. Most likely this is because Chris has made more money from Thesis than Matt has from WordPress, and he doesn't like to play by the 'rules'.

Perhaps a bit more research before you post in future?

Emperor's new clothes indeed and I was almost caught with my pants down!

Thank you for your unbiased review and thought provoking insights. I was about to hit the paypal button but had a nagging suspicion about the credibility of all the "rave" reviews. I am now certain that the financial gains through the affiliate program are driving the hype. Shame on all those bloggers who have sold their integrity for a buck.

I'll be following your blog from now on.

I bought it because I liked the simple looking layout but after working with it I totally agree that it's more hype than anything else. There has been more time spent coding the form filler than anything else.

That's why I switched over to themes by Justin Tadlock ... where more of his time is spent producing a great framework and functional add ons ... all for free.
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Kimberly, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I did briefly try the Atahulupa theme at one point and it does offer a dizzying array of Theme Options which is pretty impressive for a free theme. For most users, they like the convenience of having a theme options panel to make their customizations.

There are also a number of great theme frameworks which in some cases are a choice for more advanced WordPress users. Some don't have the convenient theme options panel, but require CSS edits to customize the themes like Theme Hybrid or Thematic. Here's a recent article that covers some recent WordPress theme frameworks at Six Revisions: http://sixrevisions.com/wordpress/wordpress-theme-frameworks-options-you-should-consider/

This site runs on the Hybrid Theme Framework which is a great choice among theme frameworks.

One of the first themes that I tried was the Arras theme which has a good support forum and is a pretty good magazine-style theme that's free. I also use a Rocket Theme on one of my Joomla powered sites.

As far as I know, Solostream complies with GPL and I think that they have some great looking theme designs.

The DIY Themes issue with WordPress/Matt Mullenweg has been going on for a while, but has intensified with the recent online discussion between Matt and Chris Pearson. I'm sure the #thesiswp hashtag is close to trending popular on twitter by now. :)

I personally can't see how Chris' position with the GPL issue or the recent publicity from his lack of compliance with it could be good for business. Matt even offered to switch his own personal site over to Thesis (Ma.tt) if Chris complied with the GPL. The other holdout on the GPL license issue was Headway Themes.

Headway Themes recently went GPL from Matt's twitter:

""Contrats to @GrantGriffiths and @ClayGriffiths on making the Headway WordPress Theme GPL compliant. cc: @photomatt"

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens with the Thesis / WordPress issue.

Terrific approach and on target.

Thesis theme has been a farce with strong backing from respected people..so easier to believe, and therefore has made a lot of money and secured following. Uncalled for hype? yup.

News flash: Thesis theme's Chris Pearson may be facing charges by the WordPress leaders for violation of the GPL licensing which clearly states that anyone utilizing WordPress is obligated to distribute their work under the GPL license, which Chris blatantly is in violation of. Chris Pearson shared an interview with Matt Mullenweg of WordPress, giving Chris an oppotunity to put his arrogance on display for the world to see and drag all of his followers/supporters down in the mud with him. Andy Beard posted the interview and it's a must see. http://andybeard.eu/2701/wordpress-thesis.html

Thanks for not being a follower in this post. Thinking for yourself is goood & the suggestions you made for alternatives are definitely worth considering. Atahualupa is my personal fav, free, customizable, SEO friendly theme..also in accord with GPL. ;-)

Hey, everyone.
I use Thesis and I will most likely continue to do so. For me, it's simple.
1. To each his own - I like Thesis more than any other themes I have used. I have not used an incredible amount of themes but why should I? I'm not going to spend my "cyber life" searching for themes. It's an area to evaluate periodically... not continuously.
2. Though I love blogging and playing around online, I do consider myself an internet marketer. Therefore, no matter what products I use, I will promote them because I stand behind them. Just because you don't believe the Thesis hype doesn't mean I am doing something wrong by promoting it. That's like saying that Tide is doing something wrong by making various claims about its laundry detergent. It's business... that's how it works.
3. Thesis doesn't come out of the box ready to please site visitors. Damn... it's pretty ugly and boring. THAT was a personal challenge to me and it caused me to learn a LOT more about web development. I appreciate Thesis for that and I would appreciate any theme that did that for me.
Really, this is all just a matter of perspective. No one is doing anything wrong by promoting Thesis.
I do, however, appreciate this article. It's genius. I would assume it's one of your most popular articles? I wish I had the balls to go "against the blogosphere grain" like this. Smart blogger here.

I recently bought the Thesis theme, and I'm NOT very tech oriented. I'm using it, and learning, but it's *not* super easy and I don't know why they make the claims about not needing to know code. I was using the free suffusion Wordpress theme before and that was MUCH less code intensive. I don't know anything about the "back end" of these things, but my experience so far is that for what I, a fairly tech illiterate person, can do with Thesis I probably would have been better off sticking with my free theme.
Oh well, live and learn!

Hi,
I am a Thesis user... hehe - it's like the opening to a 12 steps program - but that's the truth and I've also tried numerous other GPL (Once you have parted with cash) themes and like Wendy, I am sick and tired of being burned by so-called 'professional themes that comply with the Wordpress standards'. Please excuse me for a moment while I curse the **** **** b*stards - honestly - they are mainly made of 100% sh*t! A total waste of time and money! I have not tried theme Hybrid although I do use Justin's Members plugin and like it a lot - maybe I will give it a whirl one day but I've been burned that many times I am very reluctant to part with any cash to any theme designer ever again! Note: the _only_ theme I do not feel short-changed by is Thesis - worth every penny 100 times over.
Why do I like Thesis?
If I have a design, I can make it rock in Thesis in a few hours. I've completely rebuilt sites in an afternoon with Thesis. Yes the learning curve is slightly inclined, but the rewards come in waves. Thesis is powerful! It regularly saves me HOURS of time. Over and over again! My clients love me for it because their bills are less and their sites look and function as they should.
I can open the content editing interface to my clients, close off the bits they don't need to see and have them editing content/metadata to their hearts content in a couple of hours. Nothing much more than it would take them to learn how to use Wordpress itself, Thesis integration is seamless.
I know a Thesis site will work in every modern browser including mobile devices without a big todo - unless I step out of the ring - granted it takes a bit to know where that line is. But again, hours saved testing, I know I don't need to because I've started on the right foot and every single element is already tested and safe. I _know_ it will be right, and every time I do check, it is _always_ spot on!
SEO can be done with other plugins yes, that's absolutely fine, take your pick, either way, the Thesis SEO works and is easy to use. A little bonus - but certainly not what I paid for.
Most of all, I paid for the Typography. When was the last time anyone came to you and said wow - your website's typography is beautiful? I get that every time I launch a site because Thesis does make beautiful typography easy. The content is easy to read and it looks amazing! I guess this will be completely lost on a lot of folks, but such is life. I don't doubt that subconsciously they will enjoy reading well laid out typography more, even if they never acknowledge that ;-)
As for the affiliate marketing, hmmm, I don't like it either, but DIYThemes are hardly alone here. There's more of it? There's lots more sites powered by it? Erm, maybe it does actually work and it's not all hype then hey!?
I don't often make comments on blog posts, but I found the notion that someone would make a challenging post, with a high probability of a negative reaction about something they clearly know nothing about, a little too much to bear in silence. For what t's worth, I think you are dead wrong and Thesis is not the Emporers new clothes (Perhaps a highly functional, flexible utility suit in beige but all to willing to adorn itself in whatever style you see fit? hmm perhaps that's a bit Howard Moon!)
Obviously you, and everyone else here, are entitled to your opinions, but honestly, the childish lashings out at affiliate marketers hyperboles one tiny aspect of the culture behind this amazing theme. Yes they are idiots, but there are idiots everywhere you look! Ignore them like we all ignore any and all advertising - to do anything else just encourages them (Damn, why am I writing this post?)
I could go on, but I've probably said enough and despite appearances I'm not looking for a fight... here's one last suggestion; buy Thesis, give yourself the 30 days within which you can have a no-quibble refund and rebuild one of your sites in it. When I think of using another theme, my heart sinks, and I wouldn't mind betting you end up feeling the same ;-)
By the way, I'm not upset, just feeling rather sorry for you in that you're missing out.
I *heart* Thesis :)

I couldn't agree more with you, people who review thesis are selling the theme at the same time. Thus it's hard to call their review is unbiased. And the SEO parts Thesis offers can be achieved with plugins or modifying our theme code.

I am in the process of redoing my site. I have used Thesis in the past and like some who have commented here, feel that there are so many more themes these days that look great and have lots of nice options built in. But alas, those that I have tried always had some unwelcome surprise. And sometimes you do not realize what that will be until you have fully loaded it with content or enough posts or performed searches after it goes live. For example, I have a recently used the Dandelion theme and noticed that blog posts when viewed on subsequent pages (page 2, page 3) will show up on Google SERPs as blog/page-2 or blog/page-3-YUK! I probably don't have the best process and am not a php guru, so I don't know how to fix this. I simply accept that it is part of the theme. I would like to try a different theme for my new site but in the end, I think I will be using Thesis once again. For me it is a matter of trust. When I validate my code and find errors or perform a search and get weird results, I KNOW that it is either something I did or a plugin that I added. I like clean code. It's just the way I roll and I trust that Thesis is clean and semantically sound and produces good SEO results if properly utilized. Are there other themes out there that would compare? Probably, but I have yet to find it. Tired of getting burned.@Armen
- I had similar issues with regard to post thumbs and at least on one site, I accidentally got it working the way intended (michaelfields.org). Tiny thumbs are automatically generated for the teasers on the home page. I'm not sure why it works. I use the Thesis Post Image field but leave the Thumbnail Image field blank. I think thumbs are one of the most confusing of all things in WP (and Thesis). WP has a specific set of instructions for thumbs too. I think you need to add a function to make them work. Just Google it.

I bought thesis just over a month ago. I haven't had chance to really get to know it yet but it looks like there is a lot to learn to be able to customise it to do what I want.

Great blog, I'm going to spend more time learning about this subject

Great post and I'm totally convinced the point highlighted by you.
Thesis may be the best theme in past but now there are hundreds of theme offering same kind of functionality some are also free but they don't have design options :| this is what beginner wants I will never buy thesis

I'm no savvy developer, but I've been using Thesis for my wife's site (see link above) for two and a half years now.
There's much I like about it. But, there are also things I hate about it, like how you can't get plugins with thumbnails to work because Thesis handles thumbnails differently to WordPress.
Some other things are inherently confusing because the approach is so different to the norm (like creating templates).
At the start I was deeply frustrated by the whole experience. Once I got it working and didn't have to touch it, I relaxed. But, every so often I have to do something and Thesis just makes it harder for me to achieve, when it should be making things simpler.

Well, after reading the article and all of the comments above. This is something where my hope ends "I’ve never actually tried the Thesis theme" for saying anything about Thesis.
I have seen newbies playing well with Thesis. It's just their sense of understanding the Theme Options, their choice of font and color scheme which have helped them do that.
It's simply a matter of choice, some people like Thesis because they know its capabilities while some people don't because they would prefer buying a good looking theme which costs less and is easier to use as they don't need to tweak it their way. The designer of theme has prepared soup ready to be served. Now, it's the buyer's choice to go for "ready to cook" or buy "cooked" soup. :)

If you’re someone who can’t code, Genesis is leaps and bounds behind Thesis as it really doesn’t offer you any design options at all.

@Greg,
"you need a “framework” to change the width of a container? Really?"
I agree that this shouldn't be a problem.

@Gee, I myself have never used the Headway theme, so I can't really comment as to why it might be inefficient. Some people have argued that any theme that runs on a theme framework is less efficient than individual themes since it adds complexity and coding bulk.
Also, themes that have extensive option panels can be less efficient which may slow down their page load times somewhat. It's the price you pay for ease of use and convenience.

From Dave:
"1. Thesis is a framework – this means it can be used to develop ‘child themes’ without hacking the core (like you would have to do with Kubrick or 2010)."
What's a child theme? Just kidding... Yes, I am well-aware of WordPress theme frameworks and child themes.
"2. Thesis is wildly customizable if you know what you’re doing, and simple enough to make a good looking site with even if you don’t."
That Thesis is customizable is a valid point though I'm not sure I am convinced of the latter point.
"3. Thesis eliminates the need for quite a few plugins. Plugins slow websites down, add a bunch of clutter and need to be updated regularly."
That's true to an extent, though some would argue that Thesis does't play very well with WordPress including Chris Pearson's former partner, Brian Clarke.
"Thesis has had a lot of bad press lately, partly due to Chris Pearson opening his mouth before thinking, but mostly because Matt Mullenweg seems to have a personal vendetta against him. Most likely this is because Chris has made more money from Thesis than Matt has from WordPress, and he doesn’t like to play by the ‘rules’."
This is probably the one point that I would disagree with you on quite vehemently about. I'm not sure who's made more money, but you do presume that's Matt's motivation.
I don't know the specifics of Matt's ownership of WordPress.com or Automatic, but I don't think Chris can sell enough Thesis themes in his life to come close to some of the recent offers for either.
"Perhaps a bit more research before you post in future?"
This post was intended to stimulate discussion and debate and it did just that. Aside from that, it was to raise the issue of 'unbiased' Thesis theme reviews by Thesis affiliates and hidden affiliate links.
If this post pretended to be a thesis theme review itself, then you might have a point.