Vitamin B12 Deficiency in Vegans and Vegetarians

Natalie Portman - Vegan Actress

Vitamin B12 is possibly the most argued upon topic between vegans and carnivores. You always hear arguments regarding lack of B12 in plant foods (which is true) and that this very important vitamin (which it is) can only be found in animal products (also true…for now…).

B12 which is cobalt/cobalmin used to be found in very mineral rich soil (which we have depleted). It is believed our very first ancestors who were plant eaters and foragers never washed their greens (quite logical) and that is how they got their B12.

Besides the fact that not washing greens is not an option today, our soils are depleted of cobalt and we wouldn’t be eating anything more than pesticide residue. So for this one particular vitamin, supplements are definitely needed. The best form is in lozenge form, melted under the tongue.

It is an absolute essential vitamin for many vital reasons and sadly needs to be taken in supplement form for vegans/vegetarians unless you are eating a perfect* diet in a perfect* environment

Once again, I can’t help but note the irony: we demolish our mineral rich soils with animal farming and chemical sprays (1.1 BILLION pounds of chemicals a year in the U.S. alone, a whopping 95% of which misses its target and pollutes air, soil, and water instead), and then we fault vegans for their diet that lacks cobalt and suggest it must come from animals – not acknowledging the hormones, cholesterol, saturated fat, risks of contamination, and all the other problems that meat brings with it.

B12 doesn’t come from animal meat or their muscle tissue, it comes from the bacteria in their body. The meat isn’t the source, it’s the carrier, and with irradiation increasing due to mad cow disease increasing, B12 will also diminish.

Bill Clinton - former President, current vegetarian


*”perfect” diet in a “perfect” environment means you honestly think there are no toxins of any sort entering your system via food, inhalation, or through skin; this means 100% organic raw food, natural pure spring water, showering in pure clean water, no motor vehicles to force you to breathe gas emissions, all soaps and shampoos are completely natural,…does this sound like your life? LOL

Does it sound like ANYONE’S life? Even people living in the Arctic can’t avoid toxins and the proof of that is the chemicals and cancers found in the whales and fish there.

The reason I am stressing toxins so much is because it is a critical factor in understanding B12.

B12 comes from bacteria. The bacteria grown in animals, bacteria growing on plants, bacteria grown in our body. For the human body to create this bacteria it needs a very clean healthy environment – this is where the toxins come in and disrupt the process. You also need a healthy pancreas to properly absorb these small amounts of B12 your body can create, but if the pancreas is busy reacting to toxins and sugar and other harmful elements…

President Obama - Vegan or hoax?


I could go on forever about my lack of respect for most studies, but I’ll summarize, and let me state outright I disagree with most study arguments from both sides of the fence on this topic.

The meat eaters point to studies, usually a particularly famous one done in India on vegetarians there showing B12 deficiency and terrible health as a result. Um…are we talking about the same country that has the worst water issues in the world? I find it difficult to take these studies seriously considering the people studied have masses of health issues, of which B12 deficiency is only one, due to horrendous water alone, never mind all the other hygiene issues caused by poverty.

The vegans point to a handful of studies done on a handful of vegans showing no deficiency at all. Besides the fact that they didn’t study large populations of people, there’s a good chance they studied vegans, raw foodists, people with extremely pure diets and in one case I know it was people on a retreat camp.

Now I’ll look at my own life, pretty pure, vegan, organic when possible (not always possible), mostly raw, everything from toothpaste to laundry detergent are eco-friendly non-toxic phosphate-free….but – there’s always a but – I travel, shower in hotels with no filter on the water (causing my skin to absorb goodness-knows-what), eat at airports and can’t always find organic, am forced to drink from bottled water sometimes which I know contains rocket fuel half the time, live in an urban city, breathe in fumes…I must have hundreds of toxins in my body at any given time and I take extreme care – imagine the average person?

The only place on earth (or a place with similar conditions) where this is no issue is probably in the Amazon. No kidding. The non-polluted areas that have not been deforested yet (give them time) still have very rich soil and the indigenous people there still eat greens as they pick them, unwashed, leaving all the beautiful rich minerals intact on the plants and into their stomachs.

So my bottom line with B12: unless you live in the Amazon (in which case you can’t be reading this, Bill Gates hasn’t made it that far in) find a good vegan supplement and stop wasting brain cells on figuring out whether you need them or not. You need them. You need them to avoid nerve degeneration, build proteins, for blood formation, normal brain function, and avoiding death. Let’s move on…

Editor’s Note

Researchers from Tuft’s University in Boston have explored the relationship between low Vitamin B12 status in elderly people with high levels of folate [1].  What they’ve found is that vitamin B12 enzymatic functions are actually worsened as folate status increases in people who are already vitamin B12 deficient.

In previous research, they also found that low vitamin B12 and high folate status is associated with a higher prevalence of cognitive impairment and anemia than other combinations of vitamin b12 and folate.


  1. Selhub J, Morris MS, Jacques PF. In vitamin B12 deficiency, higher serum folate is associated with increased total homocysteine and methylmalonic acid concentrations. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2007 Dec 11;104(50):19995-20000. Epub 2007 Dec 4.

Jaqui Karr

Gluten and Nutrition Expert, Bestselling Author, Jaqui Karr is the authority on gluten - Visit Jaqui's website now for information about how gluten is destroying your health

34 thoughts on “Vitamin B12 Deficiency in Vegans and Vegetarians

  • September 21, 2014 at 12:40 am

    Humans do make B12 in their guts, but it’s in a part of the gut that makes it unavailable to us for use. We poop it out so post below is incorrect…

  • April 30, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    No Such Thing as a B12 Deficiency?

    Submitted by billy on Wed, 2009-08-12 17:45

    Rethinking & Clarifying the B12 Issue

    By Dr Vivian V. Vetrano

    There is no such thing as a B12 deficiency, even in 100% raw vegan food eaters. They do not have to eat dirt, animal products, or take pills to secure coenzymes of B12. Bacteria in the intestinal tract make it for us, and the metabolically usable and necessary forms of coenzyme B12 are contained in unprocessed, fresh natural plant foods, particularly in nuts and seeds. The real problem in so-called B12 deficiency is a failure of digestion and absorption of foods, rather than a deficiency of the vitamin itself.

    Vitamin B12 coenzymes are found in nuts and seeds as well as in many common greens, fruits, and many vegetables. If we ate 100 grams of green beans, beets, carrots, and peas we would have half of our so-called daily minimum requirement of Vitamin B12 coenzymes providing our digestion and absorption are normal. From Rodale’s The Complete Book of Vitamins, page 236 we find the following clarification: “As you know, the B complex of vitamins is called a ‘complex’ because, instead of being one vitamin, it has turned out to be a large number of related vitamins, which appear generally in the same foods.”

    A little publicized source of active Vitamin B12 coenzymes is from bacteria in the mouth, around the teeth, in the nasopharynx, around the tonsils and in the tonsilar crypts, in the folds at the base of the tongue, and in the upper bronchial tree. This source alone will supply sufficient quantities of Vitamin B12 coenzymes for the very small requirement of total vegetarians, especially considering that their needs for this vitamin are not as great as for those on conventional diets.

    I have studied the Vitamin B12 issue thoroughly, and have learned that biochemists, neutraceutical scientists, and many writers mistakenly use the term Vitamin B12 for cyanocobalamin, THAT IS NOT USABLE BY THE BODY BUT which is in all vitamin B12 supplements. When speaking of Vitamin B12 they are referring to the semisynthetic Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) that initially was contaminated with poisonous cyanide during its chemical extraction from animal tissues.

    In summary, vegans and raw fooders all have sufficient amounts of coenzyme B12 in their diets, and FROM THAT produced in their bodies. The most common basic cause of a natural cobalamin deficiency is a failure to digest, absorb and utilize the various cobalamins from food and from the intestinal tract as in the case of gastritis or gastroenteritis. The cause of malabsorption is commonly a gastrointestinal disorder and this was known by pathologists way back in the l800s. In this case, one’s lifestyle must be assessed and brought into unison with the needs of the living organism.

    Furthermore, absorption of the natural B12 coenzymes can take place in the mouth, throat, esophagus, bronchial tubes and even in the upper small intestines, as well as all along the intestinal tract. This does not involve the complex enzyme mechanism for absorption (intrinsic factor) in the small intestine as required by cyanocobalamin. The coenzymes are absorbed by diffusion by mucuous membranes.

    I don’t know what to make of this article. It’s disturbing to think that I’m putting cyanide into my body by taking a B vitamin.

    However, Dr. Vetrano is right when she says that cyanocobalamin is used as B12 in most vitamins on the market today. Looking at my “Stress M” vitamin (a B complex with synergistic nutrients to aid in stress management), it lists B12 and then in parentheses it says “as cyanocobalamin.” Same thing with my sister’s multi-vitamin. Cyanocobalamin is used for B12.

    While searching, I came across another interesting article on the B12 Hoax.

    I don’t remember where I heard this, but someone once told me that “Americans have the most expensive urine in the world” because they take so many vitamins—most of which are not absorbed and utilized by the body. Controversy exists over whether raw vegans should use vitamins and supplements. I know that Paul Nison favors taking supplements while eating raw; meanwhile other raw vegans are opposed to taking supplements.

    What do you think? Do you take B-vitamin supplements?

  • June 26, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    Thanks for the great article. My daughter has recently gone Vegan, after 4 years as a vegetarian, so I’m trying to learn as much as possible to ensure she stays healthy. She is taking Vitamin B12 supplements. Why risk your health, when taking supplements is easy?

  • August 24, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Some vegans believe that eating seaweed (especially laver or nori) will provide all of the B12 that they need. This is not true. The form of B12 available in seaweed is not easily absorbed by the body.

  • February 27, 2011 at 1:13 am

    Everyone can certainly experience vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms throughout their lifetime for a variety of reasons (lack of optimal nutrition, poor eating habits, etc.), but some people are more likely to have a vitamin B12 deficiency than others. Knowing that you are a part of one of these risk groups should help increase your awareness and, ultimately, prevent a vitamin B12 deficiency.

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  • December 7, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Great article – The conflicting information that is out there can be very confusing. I agree with you – just take the B-12 and stop worrying about it.

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  • November 11, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Very interesting post, Jaqui!

    You did a great job!

    There are some who are teaching that a supplement is not necessary, but I don’t agree with that.

    I say, to be on the safe side, take the supplement. What does one have to lose?

    Take care,


    • November 13, 2010 at 10:17 am

      Hey Evelyn, I myself am neither a vegan nor avegetarian, and I certainly agree with your view.

      Yet, it seems that there’s some resistance to supplementation among vegans. I might imagine its because they either view supplementation as somehow ‘unnatural’ or that they don’t want to admit that their diet lacks vitamin B12. Either way, it seems that there’s some reason for the unwillingness to taking a b12 supplement from what I sense.

      • November 13, 2010 at 6:40 pm

        Actually Jarret, I am not against supplementation. I take a B complex vitamin every day along with a Iodine tablet because I use sea salt, I also take a chewable D tablet and a tablespoon of Flax seed oil. I also restrict as much as possible the vegetable oils from my diet. When I do cook with oil I use Olive.

        My post was not against supplementation but in support of good health in general. Did you know that microwaving meat destroys most of the B12 in it? Did you know that B12 in an acidic environment (meat) is destroyed by heat? Did you know that you could need to eat up to 14 ounces of meat a day to meet you RDA for B12? In general if you are eating enough meat and dairy to satisfy our RDA of B12. B12 is the least of your worries. Meat and Dairy in the quantities needed to satisfy the B12 RDA are extremely toxic to the human body and causes degenerative disease. In General I would say that it is not Vegans that have a B12 problem the majority of Vegans if they know nothing else about nutrition know that they need B12. However The B12 requirement can easily be met as easily as drinking an 8 ounce glass of soy milk at every meal. The real problem is people persuaded by the meat and dairy are good for you industry propaganda. Every day thousands of people die from the effects of excess meat consumption.

        Read more here:

        • November 15, 2010 at 8:30 pm

          Hi David,

          That’s great that you’re not against supplementation. I was just speculating as to why it seems to be a sensitive issues for some vegans, that’s all. It sounds like it has more to do with the meat and dairy industries.

  • November 10, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    The human body requires a very small, really small amount of B12 and most of what is used is recycled by the liver.

    It seems the current fad for bashing a Vegan diet is the impending doom of B12 deficiency (now that the protein deficiency myth has been completely debunked). While it is true that if a vegan really worked at it. avoiding all fortified foods like soy milk, cereal, etc., not eating fresh mushrooms, or nutritional yeast, or vegan hamburger patties, or even going camping in the woods or drinking from a stream. they could develop a deficiency in 7 to 10 years or more.

    In reality this almost never happens. Vegans more than any other group, are quite aware of what their bodies need and make sure that they get enough nutrition. On the other hand, the typical meat eater in general does not get enough nutrition. They replace healthy plant foods with high protein, high fat, meat and dairy products. Which are, without a doubt (according to nutrition science) the most unhealthy things you can eat. In Fact, these two “foods” are directly responsible for most of the chronic and degenerative diseases which have become epidemic since meat eating went from a luxury to a national obsession.

    But back to B12, The number one cause of B12 deficiency is Ascaris infestation. Ascaris is a tiny worm which absorbs B12. People usually get it from their pets. The next most common cause is absorption problems. The most common cause is a lack of intrinsic factor and or calcium. Veganism is so far down the list as to not even be relevant.

    The truth is that Many things can cause low B12 levels. these include, smoking, high protein diets, alcohol consumption, chlorinated water, and diarrhea. B12 is also destroyed by Heat and light. So be sure to eat that steak rare because eating it well done can destroy all the B12 in it before you even get it in your mouth.

    So as you can see many factors affect B12 in the human body, and while it is worthwhile to discuss these issues in an effort to increase the health of everyone. I do not think it is useful to single out a population as being deficiency prone when in general they are not.

  • November 9, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Mineralife has a great line of vitamin supplements. Mineralife has been working on a proprietary method of producing the highest quality Ionic Angstrom Mineral available today. These products have been used by many people to support them in their fight against many common illnesses.

  • November 9, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Good thing I was stuck in an airport all day or I would never have had time for all this! But, it goes to show you how heated the topic of food has become and this is just talking about a nutrient – never mind the really difficult topics of animal rights, genetically modified foods, pesticides,…

    Thank you to everyone (especially the fact check person, because that allowed me to address even more issues!) for your comments.

    Keep the conversation going and be aware of what you are eating – it’s critical for our future.


  • November 9, 2010 at 11:25 am

    I appreciate that you presented both sides of this issue in order to be as fair and balanced as possible. I don’t know that much about the advantages of veganism but it’s difficult to ask for information without causing some people to become super defensive.

    • November 9, 2010 at 12:21 pm

      Hi Deb, it’s a shame that people get defensive and make it uncomfortable for anyone to ask questions. Earlier today I jokingly created the term “vegephobes” :) Anyone who is solid in their information will not get defensive or offensive, they’ll just present the facts.

      If I may just offer 1 piece of advice as you do research related to nutrition: always ask questions beyond the surface. If the “fact” is that red wine is good for you because it contains resveratrol, ask “how much?” The fact is there is 0.2mg/5oz glass – you need to drink a few bottles to get a few grams of resveratrol. So the wine industry will market the nutrient fact, but maybe withhold the real total picture and when you get all the facts, you might decide to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, but eat a bunch of grapes to get that nutrient.

      Same with nutrients in food, ask the deeper questions:
      1) exactly how much per serving and how much is recommended for my body’s optimal function daily?
      2) can that need be met with a reasonable amount or am I expected to eat 12 pounds of the product every day?
      3)is it a sustainable source or are we doing more harm than good with fossil fuels and gas emissions?

      Consider lifestyle, eating habits, geographic location and above all, do your best to look at the whole picture and not just a tiny isolated fact from some laboratory in a remote corner of the world LOL

  • November 9, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Patricia, have to agree with you – it always surprises me when people getting highly upset on the simple topic of food. No one is forcing anyone into anything LOL

    …mushrooms…plants….yes >> their B12 content relies greatly on the richness of the soil they are grown in. There are many parts of many countries where the soil is completely depleted of all minerals. DDT is still legal in Mexico and other countries; some products grown there are not only empty in nutrients they are downright toxic. I’ll thank the factcheck person for all his passion and time and energy in “debunking” me, but perhaps would like to do a little studying on toxicology and current issues in agriculture? 1) There are presently 26,000+ man made chemicals used in farming. 2) Most farms get 300x more harvest/per year from their land than they did 40 years ago. Those 2 facts alone should be a good place to start the investigation of “where have the minerals gone”.

    B12 deficiency is very serious and can lead to irreversible diseases like MS. Unless you live in a place where you know you are getting uncontaminated organic food grown in mineral rich soil and watered with unbleached unprocessed water….I won’t complete the sentence so I don’t repeat the info in the article.

    Let’s also use some common sense. Stan mentions his doctor monitors his B12 levels – that’s fantastic! But I don’t know many people who regularly get tests done, and depending on where they live, health care, etc – it might be too expensive to do regularly.

    There are a great many variable to consider, as with anything. I think all writers rely on some degree of common sense from readers. I’m in Canada, for more than 6 months of the year I rely on imported food that I can’t be sure of the way I am with local organic farmers in the summer, so my decision process might be a little different from someone living in Cuba.

    Please do take care, prevention is easy, illness is not.

    Thank you for all comments – especially the factcheck person as they might be the one who needed the most info and to open up to the unfortunate reality of what farming has become. (…and I just wrote a blog on my site about all these debunk people the other day titled ‘what happened to common sense?’ LOL perhaps I should have posted that one too)

    • November 9, 2010 at 11:27 am

      Hi Jacqui, thank you again for this great article. I hope that you didn’t take offense to the lengthy and somewhat unusual response from Factcheck Review.

      Given how much time and effort that person appears to have put into writing 3 lengthy comments, I thought it was only fair to allow this person to voice their somewhat dissenting opinion.

      I also agree with you that it’s commonly accepted that vegans need to consume food fortified with Vitamin B12 or look towards supplementation.

      Vitamin B12 deficiency can have serious adverse consequences, so it makes sense to avoid this issue with either fortified food or supplementation in my opinion.

      • November 9, 2010 at 11:51 am

        No offense whatsoever – first and foremost we need to protect freedom of speech. I just wish people would be practical with the overall picture of things…

        He’s highlighting that B12 can be found in button mushrooms…where does he suppose Canadians, Russians, Americans who live north of Georgia (on and on) find button mushrooms all year round and for people who can find them, what’s the suggestion? eat 2 cups of mushrooms every day? yipes. And that is still assuming the source was organic with nutrients in tact. And is it sustainable? I might be able to find mushrooms flown in from Japan, should we be considering the environmental repercussions of eating food flown in from all over the world constantly?

        I certainly don’t want to waste further time addressing this person, but would like to take a second to address the fact that there are too many “debunks” by unqualified people and that can be a dangerous thing. Case in point: a part-time blogger with zero nutrition or medical background wrote a very lengthy debunk on The China Study. WOW. The doctors on the China Study are world renowned, devoted their entire lives to nutrition studies worldwide, collaborated with hundreds of other doctors and professors, and carefully considered over 800 studies on nutrition. The valuable findings of The China Study has and will save countless lives and it’s a shame that some people will be blurred by all the debunks.

        Like I said, freedom of speech first – but maybe all these people wasting energy on debunking (quite a negative thing) should spend their time in a more positive way by publishing well researched information and let the reader decide for themselves what makes sense.

  • November 9, 2010 at 4:34 am

    Awesome article. Interesting that you use Obama for that picture, since he is not vegan. lol

    • November 9, 2010 at 11:18 am

      That was my fault, I thought it was an interesting photo. I think it was from someone’s April Fool’s day joke or something. I didn’t realize it when I selected the photo though. There’s a number of posts on the Internet about Obama being a vegan, but I guess that they’re incorrect. I’m actually surprised that the FactCheck person missed this ;)

      • November 11, 2010 at 10:50 am

        Note: The fact that the photo was of Obama with a “tshirt on” with Vegan written on it, and with him tearing off his suit like superman to reveal it wasn’t “missed”. It’s that it is so obviously photoshopped that it was deemed that it did not warrant an explanation. It even has “President Obama – Vegan or hoax?” written right underneath it by the blog owner (Jarret Morrow ). — In other words, the blog author Jarret Morrow is ok, and ISN’T claiming that it is a fact, they wrote it as a question, with the word “hoax” in it. Therefore it was regarded as simply being amusin. Plus the photo is so obviously photoshopped that it was deemed that most people would understand that already and that it didn’t warrant much attention to it in light of other more salient information.

        For the record, U.S. President Barack Obama is NOT a vegan, although he IS ON RECORD *approving* of veganism, he is vegetarian-friendly, and complemented those who follow veganism and vegetarianism. There was a town-hall featuring Barack Obama where he took questions from the attendees, one such attendee asked him about his views on veganism and vegetarianism, and he is thus on tape complementing the asker of the question, and was very complementary to veganism and vegetarianism. So although he is not a vegetarian or vegan himself, he recognized its health benefits and encouraged people in regard to it.

        (Remember, Barack Obama also has a problem with cigarette smoking.) Perhaps the vegan attendee from the audience could spend some more time with him furnishing more information on health to him, and he might very well adopt some of the principles for better health for all. He did pass the health bill, which will offer benefits to millions of people. And this included *preventative* care. In other words, not just reaction, or the emergency room, when its too late, but the healthcare reform bill helps people stop the development of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc in the first place, offering diet and exercise information, and so forth. Obama was also open to exploring other types of alternative medicine, not just the standard get surgery or ‘theres a pill for that from a drug company’ western approach, but was open to things like yoga, relaxation, raw foods, etc etc. for overall well-being.

        Other information which may be of interest:

        President Bill Clinton is (currently) a vegan. Congressman Dennis Kucinich is a vegan. Vice President Joe Biden, though not vegan, is very helpful in regard to helping animals. Biden has sponsored and put forth and voted FOR many many bills in regard to animal rights. Republican Foxnews host Mike Huckabee ate pieces of horse meat. Huckabee was obese. Republican House Speaker John Boehner is also a smoker, and even handed out payments in the form of checks from Tobacco Companies to members on the floor of Congress. (The Toxins in tobacco and cigarettes kill upwards of 400,000 American citizens each year, from cancer and other complications of cigarette smoking.) Sarah Palin spoke at the International Whaling Commission Meeting and encouraged the killing of whales, and while in Alaska was involved in offering bounties for the aerial killing of native wolves. 1st Lady Michelle Obama, though not vegetarian, encouraged the planting of a whitehouse garden, encouraged children to eat more fruits and vegetables, and is helping schools and children against childhood obesity. There is a front organization that everyone should know about, called the “Center For Consumer Freedom” which is actually a fraud group which spreads information on the internet and media which is actually found out to be lobbyists for the Tobacco, Alcohol, and Restaurant Meat industries. Keep your eye out for this scam group. The group is headed by an individual named Richard Berman, it falsely acts as if it is some kind of “Consumer Reports” help orgainizatin, but in actuality it spreads false information and attacks things that are healthy, on behalf of alchol and tobacco companies. For example, the Center For Consumer Freedom attacked MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving (yes, women who have tragically lost children to drunk driver automobile deaths). Why? Because MADD wanted less drinking, and so the alcohol companies were not going to be able to sell as much alcohol in bars and so forth. The CCF cheers pregnant women to eat fish (fish containing levels of toxic methyl mercury which can cause you to give birth to children with horrible birht defects, or brain damage). The CCF fights against Animal Rights, against Vegetarians, and against the Humane Society, because they encourage people to be vegetarian which was cutting into the Restaurant Meat industry from selling more pieces of meat. The Center for Consumer Freedom puts up websites like FishScam, MercuryScam, ActivistCash, and ObesityScam which tells people not to worry about ingesting toxic Mercury, tainted fish, and fights against anyone trying to discourage obesity from drinking sodas filled with large amounts of empty calories such as sugar. (Remember, the CCF is getting kickbacks from the Alcohol and Beverage Industry). Berman and the CCF operate over 60+ internet domain names, attacking vegetarians, veganism, animal rights, human health, etc, and spread massive amounts of dis-information on these websites. You may encounter people trying to post their links or false information from these scam-sites periodically in comments and blogs on shill sites. For instance, HumaneWatch, PetaKillsanimals, mercury-facts, Trans-FatFacts, ActivistCash, AnimalScam, etc. (NOT going to post the full address in order to Not provide further links to these sites, but for those wanting to inform others in regards to the fact that they are a fraud, essentially put “com” on the end of those. All of these are false Scam websites) Keep an eye out for them.

        Oh, and for the record, yes, Obama is a U.S. citizen, was born in the U.S. and has a birth certificate. Just in case that needs to be affirmed yet again. ;)

  • November 9, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Hi Jaqui

    Thanks for such an informative article; much of which you have based on research and substantiated evidence from studies done. I don’t know why people get defensive when their chosen lifestyle is questioned. It’s still a choice and if a person chooses to be vegan, vegetarian or a carnivore that’s up to them. we are kidding ourselves in western society if we think we are not being polluted by the environment and even the air we breath. I enjoyed your post.

    Patricia Perth Australia

  • November 8, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    I have been vegan since early 2002. I take no B-12 supplements. I do nothing special to include B-12 in my diet. I simply eat a variety of commonly available vegan foods. B-12 is added to so many things that it is never a problem. Because I am vegan my Dr. Likes to check my B-12 level. It is still at the very high end of normal. For vegans living in America and eating a variety of foods B-12 is not an issue. Vitamin D on the other hand is an issue for vegans and non-vegans alike.

  • November 8, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    THIS IS FACTUALLY CORRECT: “B12 which is cobalt/cobalmin used to be found in very mineral rich soil (which we have depleted). It is believed our very first ancestors who were plant eaters and foragers never washed their greens (quite logical) and that is how they got their B12.”=CORRECT.

    NOT QUITE CORRECT: “Besides the fact that not washing greens is not an option today”=Not if the consumer grows it themself, such as in their own garden, which many people do anyway, and can even be done indoors. Keep in mind you CAN rinse it. What commercial growers do is practically STERILIZE it, killing nearly ALL the bacteria, including the beneficial ones, using such things as pesticides and even irradiation.

    THIS IS WRONG: “It is an absolute essential vitamin for many vital reasons and sadly needs to be taken in supplement form for vegans/vegetarians unless you are eating a perfect* diet in a perfect* environment”=FALSE. This is wrong. It has already been shown above that Vitamin B12 is present in vegetarian AND vegan sources! If you ever see any person attempt to state that vegetarians or vegans “MUST” supplement, that is ruled false and that line can never be used again. As stated before, B12 is even now found in ordinary plain white button mushrooms. ALL vegans can now freely and widely post that vegans can obtain vitamin B12, entirely from vegan sources. Any meat-eater saying otherwise, is debunked.

    THIS IS CORRECT: The author writes: “Once again, I can’t help but note the irony: we demolish our mineral rich soils with animal farming and chemical sprays (1.1 BILLION pounds of chemicals a year in the U.S. alone, a whopping 95% of which misses its target and pollutes air, soil, and water instead), and then we [falsely] fault vegans for their diet that lacks cobalt and suggest it must come from animals – not acknowledging the hormones, cholesterol, saturated fat, risks of contamination, and all the other problems that meat brings with it.”=TRUE!

    CORRECT! The author states: “B12 doesn’t come from animal meat or their muscle tissue, it comes from the bacteria in their body. The meat isn’t the source, it’s the carrier, and with irradiation increasing due to mad cow disease increasing, B12 will also diminish.”=RIGHT!


    One more time: Vitamin B12 is NOT produced by livestock animals. Meat does NOT originate vitamin B-12. Vitamin b-12 does not come from meat as its source. You do Not have to ingest meat to obtain vitamin B12. Any person attempting to claim that you Must eat meat or animal products to obtain B12 is summarily debunked. Livestock animals do not even produce Vitamin B12. The article author here correctly states, that the source of Vitamin B12 is BACTERIA! This bacteria is present all over the place, naturally, including not just in the intestines of animals, but inside HUMANS, and the bacteria producing vitamin b12 are also present in vegan sources, mushrooms, and plants.

    STUDY: “Concentrations of vitamin B12 [were] detected in [MUSHROOMS] outer peel than in cap, stalk, or flesh, suggesting that the vitamin B12 is probably bacteria-derived. “-Centre for Plant and Food Science, College of Health and Science. (Mushrooms are a source of B12)

    Also, the amount of B12 required is nearly infinitessimal. It is measured in a few millionths of a gram. In addition, the human body recycles it. So in other words, B12 goes to the liver, and back to the body, and back to the liver again, and can be used in the body again and again and again. The human body is so efficient at keeping a supply of B12, that the human body can go for up to 7 years without it, simply by recycling the original amount.

    THIS IS CORRECT! “Even people living in the Arctic can’t avoid toxins and the proof of that is the chemicals and cancers found in the whales and fish there.” -Some meat-eaters went around claiming that eating meat was such an excellent diet, by citing native populations that ate things like seal meat, whale meat, and blubber, and so forth in the Arctic, alleging that these Inuit, Eskimos, Yupik, etc were “healthy” and had low levels of cancer and heart disease etc. The “Weston A. Price” debunked front group is a famous group that is listed on QUACKWATCH site that went around saying Native Arctic meat eaters were healthy. This is FALSE.

    The Inuit people of the Arctic have now been measured with some of the highest levels of toxic human contamination on the face of the earth. The Eskimo people from eating a meat-based diet, of sealmeat, whale meat, fish, hunted wildlife, deer, elk, etc are now heavily infected, their tissues including the brain soaked with neurotoxic methylmercuric poison, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), Brominated Flame Retardants, even DIOXIN compounds. Whale meat and seal meat is soaked with Mercury. Ingesting seal meat or whale meat is now akin to a child eating lead paint chips. These meat and fish eating people are now giving birth to children horribly deformed, with birth defects, diabetes, cancers, and their children born learning-disabled. Samples of their blood and tissues taken from Native Arctic Inuit people who had eaten seal meat, whale meat, and hunted animal meat were so heavily toxic, that they could be classified as hazardous waste. [See BLUEVOICE.ORG Arctic AMAP Study ] (Not only that, but to ANYONE you see posting any statements quoting the now debunked Weston A. Price Foundation, found to be a meat-pushing agenda front group by ScamWatch, remind that individual using Weston A. Price to advocate meat, that the principal spokesperson from Weston A Price who was advocating the meat diet, actually died of Coronary Heart Disease…he barely made it to his 40’s. In addition, wheras BLUE ZONES, populations of vegetarian or nearly vegetarian people, such as the Vegetarian Americans in LomaLinda, the vegetarian Hunza people in Asia, etc have centenarians living up past the age of 100 years old, on a plant-based diet, the people who eat a predominantly meat-based diet such as the Masai tribe in Africa have a lifespan a little over 40.

  • November 8, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    From This Article: Author falsely wrote “Vitamin B12 is possibly the most argued upon topic between vegans and carnivores.”=MIS-LEADING STATEMENT. Humans aren’t carnivores.

    A Carnivore is an organism that ingests almost entirely ALL meat. Humans are Not Carnivores. And if you ever encounter any person who says this or attempts to claim this, you can debunk that individual by simply asking them to prove it, BY DOING IT.

    Tell that individual falsely claiming that humans are carnivores, to eat ONLY meat, for an entire year. It already goes without saying, that vegetarians can not only eat and live on proper vegetarian items for 1 year, 5 years, even decades, 50 years, and more, but also actually come out of it even healthier, and more fit.

    Simply tell the person attempting to state they are a carnivore to do the same and prove it. Oh, by the way, that means no KFC (KFC is made with breading. And “11 herbs and spices”. Those are plants. Ruled out) Oh, also that means no hamburgers (hamburger is flavored with relish, mustard, ketchup, lettuce, the wheat in the bun, even the meat patty contains onions, seasonings, spices, and even grains. Hamburgers are forbidden for a carnivore.) Oh, and remind them they will be able to eat no Barbequed steak either. Barbeques are done with charcoal. Charcoal is wood. Wood is a plant. Meat-eaters are obtaining all the flavors from plants. It also means no A-1 steak sauce. No black pepper. No hot peppers. No hot wings (they are covered and flavored with barbeque sauce, that is made with tomatoes, spices, etc, those are plants) They can have no beer (hops, barley,plants). No wine, no cocktails, no orange juice, no tea, no coffee. They can drink blood, and water, if they want.

    Oh, yeah, and they’ll be needing to eat all of the Meat raw. Afterall that’s what carnivores do.

    Now, tell the person to come back after 1 year, if (they are still alive), and you’ll believe them. (After they get out of the hospital from being infected with E.Coli, Salmonella poisoning, suffering explosive vomiting, bloody diarrhea, anemia, severe malnutrition, and being de-wormed from an infestation of Trichinella pork worms and tapeworm proglottids that are now burrowing throughout their tissues.

    What is happening here is that First of all, humans are Not carnivores. What the person has done, is tried to make some colloquial joke out of using and saying the word “Carnivore” incorrectly to try to portray some kind of affinity they have for meat. Meat-Eaters once went around all over the place bragging that they were such “carnivores”, now however, since that has been proven False, meat-eaters are now BACK-PEDALING away from the word Carnivore, and retracting that, and now are attempting to flaunt the term Omnivore, instead. However, 2 things: (1) This is also factually incorrect. and (2) Nearly All of the best tastes in the world come from plants! Not the meat. Witness what you just read above. The taste of KFC comes from the colonel’s secret recipe of “11 herbs and spices”. All of the tastes they are bragging about, are plants. Anyone raving about barbeques goes On and On about their grilling (over wood, flavor from a plant), and their secret sauces (ALL obtaining their flavors from plants), A-1 sauce on steaks, pepper, seasonings, and the like. And plus, if eating meat were “natural”, then they would be able to eat (and enjoy!) coagulated blood, and pieces of cold raw yellow chicken-skin, along with mouthfulls of fur and feathers and so forth. “Artificial” is the term for something that is done by man, not usually found in nature. You don’t see animals rubbing sticks together or building a stove and cooking meat in nature. Even omnivores (the RAT and the PIG are examples of “omnivores”, not humans). Only humans create fires and cook meat on stoves, making it “artificial” and therefore eating a diet of cooked meat is ruled “Un-Natural”. (Remember, there are Frugivores and Raw Vegans, living decades just fine, so this establishes that humans most closely match a Frugivore Vegetarian Vegan diet.)

    Meat-Eaters insist on cooking the meat, otherwise they will get sick, infected with viruses and mammalian diseases and parasites, from meat in its natural state: RAW. And die of malnutrition, sickness, and disease, from meat. Anyone stating otherwise, simply prove it, eat raw pork, raw pieces of chicken skin, and cold pieces of cattle meat for 1 year. Obtained yourself. By running after and chasing the pig, and biting with your (natural) teeth, into the side of a Bull. Remember, “no tools” those are man-made, not “Natural”. Oh, and be sure to bring a video camera to document everything, it will be amusing later. Especially since you’ll be running after the chicken and trying to bite into the side of the bull while naked. Remember, man was born with no fur or clothes. So to prove humans were genetically designed to do this without being born with blunt teeth, no fangs, just soft fingernails, no claws, etc, you’ll be needing to chase, take down that 2-thousand pound bull while naked and then go up to it and bite it. So be sure to get all of it on camera, because later, after you get out of the hospital, it will be worth its weight in gold on video.

  • November 8, 2010 at 8:43 pm


    Although most of this article is ok, there are several factual errors, and mis-information posted by this author, Jaqui Karr, in this article.

    FALSE STATEMENT IN THIS ARTICLE: “You always hear arguments regarding lack of B12 in plant foods (which is true)”=NO IT’S NOT. This author has perpetuated a falsified statement. B12 is present in vegan foods, such as even regular ordinary plain white button mushrooms. As proven in the following laboratory analysis:

    “Vitamin B12 the Active Corrinoid Produced in Cultivated White Button Mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus)”


    Mushrooms have B-12. Vegans can obtain B12.

    If you EVER see ANY person ever attempt to post or state that vegan sources don’t contain vitamin B-12, or, that vegans can’t obtain B12, or even worse, some extremely under-educated individual writing some other article saying “vegetarians” who eat eggs, cheese, and milk can’t obtain vitamin B-12, ALL of those users can be immediately debunked and discredited. It has now been proven, Vegans can obtain B12.

    FALSE STATEMENT: “and that this very important vitamin (which it is) can only be found in animal products (also true…for now…).”=FALSE! Both the original statement, AND the parenthetical statement added by the blog author Jaqui Karr in this article are now proven false.

    “this is a very important vitamin”=TRUE.
    “can only be found in animal products”=FALSE. This is blatant mis-information.

    Notice that false statement in this article falsely attempts to dupe the public into believing the false absolute claim that ONLY animal products contain B-12! That is so blatantly false that if you ever see this one, either the individual is not competent on the subject, or the question arises as to an intentional attempt to decieve (e.g. Meat Industry Lobbyist intentionally pushing a falsified meat agenda in hopes of profit.).

    WATCH OUT for the more common line you will see, also false. In this one, a writer will try to sneak a statement by, whereby they slip in the conditional words “only reliable source” or somesuch concoction. As in, “pieces of meat are the only RELIABLE source of…” etc. This is False. However, what they are doing here is wedging in a provisional way out, such that they can wiggle out of being called a liar, by inserting the tempering word “reliable” in there. However that is also struck down as also patently false.

    SCIENTIFIC QUOTE: “High concentrations of vitamin B12 were also detected in the flush mushrooms including cups and flats.”-Journal of Ag Food Chemistry ananlysis

    B-12 has now been found in Vegan sources. And reliably, and in high concentrations. This is now scientifically confirmed. Any statement attempting to assert that B-12 is only in meat, or animal products, with or without scam words inserted, is false.

    FINDING: Vitamin B-12 is present in Vegan sources. Vegans can obtain B-12. Any person attempting to state otherwise can now be discredited.

  • November 8, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    This was really nice to read, especially because yesterday I was shaking my head at an article discussing how veganism “isn’t natural” because of the B12 issue. It’s nice to hear some sanity. :)

  • November 8, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Can we get a link for the Oxford University study noted at the end of this? Not to argue the main point of the post (no thinking vegan, including myself, seriously claims we shouldn’t be aware of B12, and getting enough in our diet), but I’d like to verify the claim that over half the vegans studied were clinically *deficient.* I’ve read several studies that found vegans to be on the lower end of normal, but no studies (yet) that found such a high percentage of vegans to be actually deficient.

    If this study is finding that, it would be important to compare their study population against the rest of the vegan population as a whole, and find out why that finding is (seemingly) showing such a disparity with respect to nearly every other study of vegans and B12 I’m aware of.

      • November 9, 2010 at 2:41 am

        Yeah, I saw the abstract; I really don’t mean to nitpick, but I’d like to get a look at the full study, if possible, along with (here’s the relevant bit) the peer review data.

        I really don’t mean to be difficult about this; it’s just that this is an outlier claim for me; I’m not saying it’s invalid, necessarily. I want to see what the whole study is saying, and see if there are (potentially) issues with their study population or methodology.

        If it needs repeating: I *am not* saying vegans do not need to be aware of B12 or that vegans do not need to ensure they’re getting B12.


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